Friday, August 3, 2012
All is Fair
A recent post I wrote generated a huge amount of drama in the Amarr/Minmatar media. The few opinions I shared, and the information I relayed about certain groups in the Amarr militia produced a melee of attacks against several militia members including myself and Hans Jagerblitzen –personal, verbal attacks in-game and out of myself, as well as political attacks of Hans.
I will, again, be completely honest when I say that while I'm not opposed to making the Amarr mad—in the same way that I'm not opposed to making them mad by blowing up their ships and taking their space—(it would be silly of me to imply otherwise) my primary purpose is not to cause melodramatic raging. Those who know me know that I’m very far from being a malicious person.
I never really had a goal or purpose for this blog when I first began writing except to have a place to share my own thoughts or opinions and occasionally vent. In writing about Faction War, however, I often feel the desire to go a little beyond a few disjointed opinions and to share a slice of the Faction War ‘world’ with the rest of the EVE population--or others who might happenchance be reading.
Unfortunately, this is often a difficult task. I could choose, as others do, to remain strictly dispassionate and objective in my analysis—sticking to dry discussions on FW game mechanics or writing like an impartial FW news source. There is a place for this, and I frequently slide toward that route. But, I usually find myself wanting—needing to tell you much more. I want you to see the passionate political upheavals, the grim backstabbings, and the ongoing rage drama that is very much a part of Faction War. I don’t want just to update you on who has what systems, or who won what battle –I want you to really see all the facets of Faction War, both glorious and brutal.
Contrary to what anyone in Faction War might tell you, it’s not just about getting good fights. There are extreme elements of camaraderie and loyalty that you will not find anywhere else in this game. There are fierce components of betrayal, loss, and controversy. It’s not just about getting a good fight---good fights can be found in many places in EVE. Faction War is a rough side of the greater EVE community –full of ruthlessness--both in defending one’s friends and defeating one’s enemies.
I do not regret what I said. Much of what was said about Fweddit came from things I read from the Amarr themselves –discussions they have in open about their leadership playing other games, or being busy in Delve. Usually I provide links and ‘proof’ of what I say –though I assure you that even when I don’t –when I allude to mails or some other artifacts, it usually means I have a mail or some other document, conversation, link or etc. I’m way too skeptical and cynical of a person to simply fly on a rumor, and I’m not clever enough to make up some sort of mysterious intel for the ulterior purposes of targeted propaganda. Zeric Sarain, who claims I efficiently, and purposefully targeted specific groups within the Amarr for maximum ‘impact’ gave me way too much credit.
While I feel that my discussion on Fweddit’s impact on the warzone has been grossly misinterpreted, I do not regret this discussion either. To not share the commonly imparted feelings of disappointment the Minmatar have of a group they were expecting to revitalize the Amarr in a much more significant way would be a misrepresentation of the people I fly with, and Faction War as a whole. We would have much preferred Fweddit to be the raging Amarrian knight that cuts through our defenses and rolls through our space—as opposed to some no-name null-sec group that has no intentions of taking Faction War seriously except for the purposes of making a buck and blithely moving on.
This is not to say that Fweddit hasn’t provided us with some enjoyable fights, nor does it mean that they have been sitting on their thumbs. But, for all their talk and early enthusiasm over taking over the world against extreme odds, Fweddit seems to have fizzled into nothing more than your average general militia lackey. I would be very happy to be proven otherwise.
What I do regret is the loss of friendship, which seems to come with the territory of writing about the controversial. While I never, ever intend or strive to single out people for personal attacks that go outside the bounds of game-play, some of what I say is taken very personally.
I grow incessantly frustrated and disgusted with the growing argumentum ad hominem stance of people like Shalee Lianne, and others –including the currently notorious fwedditer who wrote about the non-existent (and absurd) ‘exploits’ of CSM delegate Hans Jagerblitzen. I admit (and somewhat reluctantly and laughingly so) that I recently thought of inventing an Amarrian blogger just to have someone stable to banter with. I even elicited the help of Hans at one point –I had a crazy idea to set up some sort of Demosthenes and Locke approach whereby we could hack away at hard, controversial, and drama-inducing problems without the immature responses of people who prefer to attack someone’s blogging style and personality quirks as opposed to their ideas.
I sometimes wonder if these people—these Amarr, (I realize that often a very few tend to loudly contribute to the overall perception of their Faction) will ever realize that their personal attacks, their local spamming and threats have little effect. I wonder when people will realize that entire blog posts ranting about how I am a liar and should ‘suck it’ just makes the writer thereof look petty and immature, and doesn’t really inspire remorse on my part, or even much of a thought beyond what I write here.
Not only are such outbursts unproductive, (not that every blog post needs to be productive or serious) they are counterproductive to many of the serious and legitimate concerns the Amarr might have. By portraying themselves as ridiculous crybabies, (I realize some will consider this verbiage as trolling, but there’s really no other way to describe it) they stifle their own voices and cripple their greater influence.
The louder they cry, the quicker those whose opinions do matter will go deaf to anything they have to say.
Thankfully I still have hope. (And, thankfully I have no intention of arguing with myself masquerading as an Amarr.) Reasoned responses and thoughts from people like Zeric Sarain, though perhaps sizzling with their own political undertones, have a much better chance of not only turning a few Minmatar heads, but also giving us a run for our money strategically-wise in the future.
In closing. I realize this might seem like a blog post hailing the ‘end’ of something. I assure you it is not. Perhaps it is a beginning of sorts.
If anything, the events of the last few days have only strengthened my resolve to let it all hang out, be honest, and talk about my opinions even if they make people spitting mad—or regard me as a propaganda touting troll.
If anything –I’ve held back.
And, I apologize. I apologize to my new readers, and perhaps some of my old readers who are occasionally offended and/or disgusted reading other readers’ bitter comments that follow my posts. I’m sorry if you find it hard to follow the love-hate relationships that plague inter and cross-militia culture, or are confused at the blurry boundaries between FW game-mechanic discussions and warzone politics. I’m sorry if you occasionally get lost reading the heated debates about something that seems small and insignificant, or struggle to comprehend the bigger context of Faction War with its years of flip flopping loyalties and raging media wars. I’m sorry if we occasionally seem a little nuts, in our massive thrasher or rupture gangs killing each other over and over and over again for hours over a small plot of space--only to incessantly argue about the meaning of the outcome, or the motivations of each side for weeks following.
Welcome to our world.
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I love seeing Ender's Game references in Eve. Keep up the good work. Love the blog.ReplyDelete
I agree! someone got there before me :( :(Delete
Enemy's gate is down, Susan.ReplyDelete
Don't be ashamed to be a blog troll. I am quite proud of being so. Of course, I'm doing it ironically, but, still...ReplyDelete
I mean, at some point, I'll stop showing up here to read your "blog." I've read better fiction elsewhere. At the first few reads, I thought there was some factual content present, with just a twinge of "spin."ReplyDelete
I'm quickly coming to realize though, that this blog is the "Faux News" of the eve blogosphere. I really want to keep tact to my prose.. but you just don't deserve it.
Look you dumb cunt, Fweddit, with the support of the rest of the Minmatar militia, had 19 systems in a vulnerable state, many more over 50% contested, by themselves. This was prior to Nulli even joining a fight. You cannot keep saying something to the contrary as if it's fact and eventually believe people will come to accept what you say as the truth. This isn't a religion, after all, and no one's buying (unless they're blinded by a conflict of interest to the truth) your tale of the talking snake.
Even in your expose of whatever this hogwash is.. you still spin the story, paint yourself as the victim, are full of pretentious attitude, presume far more than you should and just go on and on, without really providing any value added content.
Look, get involved in an HOA if you're able to afford a house in a nice enough of a neighborhood. Old biddies and retirees would probably enjoy your whimsical fantasy world, that you paint every time you slap two or more sentences together.
LOL, obviously not being able to decide whether I should trash the Minmatar or say something about the Amarr and half paying attention to what I'm writing lead to a typo in the third paragraph.Delete
If you're mentally competent, and better at thinking than I am typing, you'll realize it should say ".. with the support of... Amarr militia" instead of the spoken Minmatar.
Apparently I should pay better attention. Even though you're not worth the attention.. I should actually proofread what I'm typing while looking at other conversations.. so I don't look as foolish as you..
Or I could just keep shitting up your blog with self-replies?
OK OK ONE MOREDelete
IN ALL SERIOUSNESSDelete
I should also clarify that I am a complete coward who would prefer to call women cunts because I can hide behind a computer instead of owning up to my comment and posting my real name.
I am also completely ignorant of the fact that the blog post points out the ridiculousness of personal hatred stemming from silly in-game smack talk, and exposes the idiots like me who can't seperate a video game from RL. Thats why instead of simply responding with smack about Late Night alliance (the analogy of Susan talking about fweddit) i chose instead to insult her as a human being - being completely oblivious to the delicious irony in doing so.
My Bad, I don't do the social media thing to feel important. I don't judge my self-worth by the number of "followers" I have.Delete
I still choose to insult her as a human being. Whatever else you may feel about your post, I find irrelevant. I don't have an issue with Late Night Alliance, I have an issue with her mental retardation expressed in verbal form.
...and yes, to those that are wondering, this is the same mental retardation that caused me to call Hans a cheater because I'm too lazy to look up the mechanics of the fact that CCP designed gates to work the way they do. But hell, what do you expect? fact checking is for nerdsDelete
Also, i dont want to be misunderstood - I dont judge my self-worth by the number of "followers" I have. But if you would all come over and give my spergy reddit posts some upvotes I'll be happy as a clam. I'll even continue to invent scandals and lie about people that are actually willing to talk to me about fixing the game, why?? cause its much more FUN!! (and gets my upvotes. dont forget the upvotes.)
Xiu, so much love? Y u mad bro?Delete
Wait... what? I was going to say to Mr Anon Fwedditor that since he hates Susan's blog and what and how she says things, he would be better off not reading her blog.... I mean, that really is the solution here; if you don't like what she says or how she says it, don't read it! But then all the self reply posts with the mentioning that your anon opinion is stupid and you just spout stuff to get attention and don't care if any of it is true... I don't understand what that was all about, but I am defiantly not going to up vote any of your reddit posts...Delete
Is there anyway to unsubscribe to this shit? I mean can I drop stuff from the blog pack so I don't have to read shit like this and that roc dude?ReplyDelete
This blog is well written garbage I feel cheated out of my life every time I read it, and I feel I'm bumping your reader stats unfairly by opening and shutting
You are defiantly bumping he stats by posting your lame comments. Nice work.Delete
And, of course you can remove specific entries from your feed. Put more effort into figuring out how the things you use work and less into whining.
Lastly, even though I did win a contest Roc had on his blog site and he was very nice about giving me the winning prize, I do find his blog really boring and therefore do not read it anymore. (you should try that, not reading stuff you don't like, Searsy)
Both of you Anonymous and Searsy should just drop it. Move on. And don't come back. I'm sure it would be as much for your own good as well as everyone else's.ReplyDelete
i recently wandered into kourmonen (my research complex) and wondered what the heck was going on with local...i had to block a dozen people just to hope i'd get a response from someone rational.ReplyDelete
I was like "wtf jita local?"...seemed rather immature. to an outsider it looked like some griefers got onto the FW bandwagon to piss on anyone and everyone (including no doubt their "own side")
i have no idea who "fweedit" is nor will i remember them in years to come when i continue to visit kourmonen. Oh, i remember [TORY] just before fw moved in...vaguely.
I actually quite enjoyed fighting Fweddit at the beginning prior to Inferno when they were doing the whole destroyer rush "doesn't matter if we lose ships economic warfare thing." It was refreshing and I think we did have some genuinely good fights. But I ended up blocking Fweddit in local because some of their membership were pretty retarded in the smack talk stakes and ended up taking things a bit too personally.ReplyDelete
As to Susan Black, I find her quite charming in voice and fleet and she seems to be a pretty good fleet mate (+ its always nice to have somebody else made primary before me!)
This blog always seemed to me to be mainly IC-ish propaganda and probably demonstrates why actually roleplaying in Eve Online can be a good thing because it helps people to distinguish between in-character hatred and rivalry and out of character fuckery (to a degree).
I've always seen Susan as a propagandist and sometimes psy-war voice for the Minmatar side and she really does get the Amarrians a bit riled up. I guess where it gets a bit muddy is in her relationship with Hans who's got a responsibility to represent all the FW constituents who voted for him in the election - hence the propaganda and psywar gets a bit aggravating for the other side when its mingling with issues of strictly out of character space politics.
Any which way getting out of your tree angry and anonymous-posting that people are "cunts" is probably a sign you should logoff the computer today and go have a nice cycle in the park, drink some wine, smoke a blunt, generally chill out with your friends and get a sense of perspective.
And bare in mind that if Susan is indeed the kind of outrageous troll who posts these blogs just to drive 24th Crusade and Fweddit into apoplexy of rage and angst then the comments to this blog section will be making her laugh long and heartily.
End of the day we're entering a phase in FW where the Amarrian side is getting a pretty huge advantage from nullsec interests and will shortly be in the total ascendance - will be interesting to see how you guys handle being the winners for a change!
But OOC-wise - for fucks sake lets all remember we're just gamers at the end of the day. Nobody is really wearing slaver robes and Eve isn't "that real."
Good points Jade.Delete
I think her deliberately ignoring the fact that amarr had turned the war around before nulli (which she was told several times in her last blog) does prove this is just a troll blog.
Like you say, Hans has indicated that he discusses the game with her and we naturally have to wonder why he is discussing the game with someone who is so misinformed and just likes to troll.
As for Hans I think the minutes reflect that he did push ccp on the concerns amarr had. He however has taken some flak for consistantly defending susans blog claiming it involves facts and attacking the amarr responses. I don't think he is anti-amarr but his defense of this troll blog have hurt him.
I just hope he continues to post in eve-o so his own views can be heard and discussed from people who do not have access to minmatar teamspeak. He has done a good job with this so far.
Susan can have an opinion that is out if sic with that the Amarr tend to see without her whole blog being just a troll. Cearain, we have had some decent conversations here about actual mechanics, and Susan has contributed to those talks. Her post after this one about cyno jamming in low sec is a good example. There is actual content to be found even if you don't agree with everything she says, particularly about the current state of teh political landscape of faction war. Honestly, I think that's why you are still here (and me as well). If it is all really just troll work, why would you still be reading and posting?Delete
As for Hans, you are right to read and consider his own posts and words when judging his performance and ability as CSM. Whether or not Susan likes him et al, is not really relevant to his work on the Council.
Profanity and links to outside websites other then killboards will be deleted.
So that's your weak justification to delete my comment, but leave Jade's standing.Delete
You're a joke.
You're welcome to repost an edited version of what you wrote. =)Delete
The angry mob mentality Susan is creating on our side isn't the most dignified thing, but it sure is effective at uniting us under a common banner of "crush the Minmatar to paste".ReplyDelete
I remember the old days of begrudging mutual respect between the opposing sides, back when things 'didn't matter'. Now with oppressive consequences for losing, obscene rewards for using cheap tactics to win, and an all-around lack of understanding between he sides, this war has been getting a lot less gentlemanly. I think Susan simply put the last nail in the coffin for old FW with her passive-aggressive insults, inadvertently or not.
I suppose it is time to light torches and grab pitchforks with everyone else in the 24th. E-honor out the window, mercy an afterthought, and 'playing the game to have fun' down the drain. It's time to play simply to make the other side lose.
Thank you Susan, you've managed to make EVE an even more ruthless place.
Let's not kid ourselves. The minnies and Amarr have both beat their chests and spun battle stories since the beginning of time. Saying that the Amarr suck, that Fweddit is useless, and that everyone needs to stop crying is some pretty vanilla smack talk as far as EVE or FW is concerned.Delete
You can try to pin the shift in culture on Susan, but this is what I wrote about before she even started this latest slew of incendiary posting. The minute everyone started raging at me personally and screaming metagame without even doing their homework into the timeline of the changes and when I was elected to office, the line was crossed from the normal smack talk into something much more personal and destructive. All of you that have picked up a stone and thrown it is responsible for the new tone in the warzone, Susan and her detractors alike.
And I refuse to write any of this off as just "the new Faction Warfare culture" either. Look at events like Fan Fest - they are designed to bring people together who fight each other in game (and smack talk each other) to sit down and have a beer. So this is the test for all of you engaging in the ragewars - could you sit down and have a beer with someone like Susan? If not, you've crossed that line into forgetting that this is all just a game, and its time to take a step back and grow up.
What blog, before susan's turned troll, had generated this sort of reaction?
And lets be clear what the reaction is. Susan posts stuff as fact that is untrue in order to get a rise out of amarr. Amarr gives an accurate account in a way to get a rise out of minmatar.
Then, like flustered school marms, you and and other susan supporters say "hey wait you guys need to cool down" to the bloggers that stick it to her. Cant take the heat? Get out of the kitchen. If she stops trolling amarr she won't have this problem. If she keeps it up she knows what to expect.
As far as you being brought into it. Well you sort of bring yourself into it don't you? Here you are defending susan *again* right after publicly attacking an amarr blogger. I do not think you are biased, but do you see why many do? Hans your the one publicly picking sides in this pissing match. No one is forcing you to pick sides.
Never wrestle with a pig. You will both end up dirty, and the pig just loves it.
As far as drinking a beer of course I would, it would be great. I could also find out if, by talking slower and louder, you and susan might understand something sensible about this game. If someone is so worked up about this game, telling them they shouldn't be, probably won't help.
I suppose all those systems just contested themselves before Nulli even joined to print LP by spinning backwoods buttons? You say Fweddit has had no effect, yet let's see you dock in kourmonen!ReplyDelete
Dislike our culture all you want, but to say we've done nothing when other major Amarr groups fled the militia, spent all their time crying on the Eve-O forums or getting in pathetic little hissyfits with you guys?
And saying our leadership has been inactive is quite disproven by the flood of pings I get on jabber and their constant presence on mumble. Maybe you should reconsider your vetting process for what you consider evidence?
I would point out that just as there are allot of different amarr and minmatar and there are allot of different fweddit pilots.ReplyDelete
Some are more reasonable and mature than others.
I agree to this! had lots of fights with Fweddit and apart from the odd few who like to use "big grown up words" in local, alot are fun to fight with. 30 man Fweddit thrasher fleets going head long into a plex held by the mini's deseves alot of respect and i have had alot of fun fighing you.....Delete
Nulli is a slightly different story. I have reports that a lot of mini pilots have blocked the whole alliance because of there local chatter. Again there are exeptions to the rule but its not a good advert for an alliance at all. A GF in local and friendly banter is part of the game, but some of the stuff boarders on being patitioned. Yes i banter in local, im sure a few amarr have me blocked from heat of the moment comments after close fights but there is a line to what people should say and put up with... ok slightly off topic i know. Still loving the fight with the amarr and i know how much tougher our job has become with Nulli Hun and Fweddit flying around, I just hope we can keep the good fighting going and that the warzone does not become broken in a way that all of mini/amarr FW space just becomes one entire LP farm for one side with no fights and no contests.
Please ignore the little boys living at home with their mothers who have no life other than eve. This is a game. I enjoy reading your posts Susan and so do many of my fellow corpmates. One day these little boys who have not yet gone through puberty will realize that you write about faction war which involves a slight bit of role playing. Some people need to move away from the computer screen at least once a millennium and realize that games ARE FOR FUN. Grow up and relax little boys. Keep up the good work Susan.ReplyDelete
I think that it is totally fair to recognize that the amarr (including fweddit) that were here before Nuli joined the amarr militia did a good job of adjusting their tactics to leave systems vulnerable instead of taking them one at a time just to see them retaken by the minmatar as the next system falls. Of course, until the time comes that the amarr actually take all or most of those systems and upgrade them to reach tier 5 (or at least 4), the tactic is not yet complete. There isn't any value in vulnerablizing systems, after all. But so far so good for the amarr; I hope to see some big battles when they go for the mass flip!ReplyDelete
I had myself flown around to run plexes in the vulnerable systems thinking to un-vulnerableize them, even if only by 1% per system. Just to make some amarr have to go around and redo it. What I found is that doing plexes in those systems doesn't make them not vulnerable again. After asking around, I heard that by running more plexes in already vulnerable sysems, the systems get 'buffered' into vulnerable. I would have to run an equal amount of plexes to undo the overage just to be able to get get the system to 99% contested. One evening a few us ran 10 plexes in a vulnerable system, but it was still vulnerable. So, to me, there is no reason to even try to undo any of the vulnerable systems because it will take hours of time for pretty much no reward.
I have also hear, while inquiring on this, that CCP has taken note of this effect and stated that it is indeed unintentional. They apprently didn't mean for systems to work like this (i guess they thought a faction would always just take a i-hub once vulnerable? poor testing work on their part to be sure). At least this is a now well known bug in the faction war mechanics. It is a bug that the amarr are using to the utmost, since you get LP for plexing in vulnerable systems and it makes the system even more buffered against de-vulnerablizing with apparently no cap at all. I hope CCP fixes this soon (Hans!) even though it would eventually be just as useful for the minmatar as it has been for the amarr (assuming the amarr ever actually take all those systems).
I do also recall a number of vocal amarr complaining about the minmatar using some bug to take systems more easily and how unfair it was to the amarr. So my question now is simple: Since this bug is currently clearly beneficial to the amarr, do those same people have a problem with it being used so extensivly? Or is there some reason/excuse as to why its fine now to use a bug that exists for your own benefit but it was not ok before when the minmatar were doing it?
Personally, unless CCP declared the use of a bug as a bannable exploit (which they have not) then I don't see that there is anything wrong with benefiting from it (just as there was no problem before. CCP should fix bugs. That is all.) I do however, want the amarr running plexes in vulnerable systems to at least recognize their use of this bug. Some things do break your way, guys!
Hey, I wanted to say something about the 'fweddit bashing' that Susan is accused of. I don't think fweddit has done nothing the fw, or whatever minimizing of their impact some put forward. But I want to say that when they first joined, many of us in the minmatar militia (at least in the late night tz I am active in) thought that fweddit would be a pvp focused opponent for us to fight. Things in this timezone have been so one and off, where one side has way more people active and then the other side has way more people active so that the periods of time where there are plentiful good fleet fights has been small. One side then the other over the years has mostly been in control. So with the amarr currently down in active pilots, some of us thought that fweddit would show up and be a pvp focused group to battle with.ReplyDelete
It worked like that for awhile, with fweddit having numbers but low skill points, and fights were fast and furious. Minmatar won the kill count usually but fweddit won the isk battle flying cheap small ships en masse. But it didn't take long for the situation to turn into just another pendulum swing like before. Fweddit got more careful about engagements and their numbers got very very big. 70 thrashers, t1 fit or not, is no fight 12 guys are going to hit with any regularity. Minmatar numbers dwindled some and Amarr gorups besides fweddit also started bringing out larger sized fleets. Sometimes we would engage one group only to get sandwiched by the other. Then there is tri gun, who kept wanted to titan bridge a bunch of battleships onto almost any fight. So our numbers active dropped some more. Just the pendulum swinging, no complaints.
Back to my point tho, it seems to me that fweddit became as a group more focused on plexing and pve than on pvp, and I think that is why people like Susan decry their role in fw as being less than hoped for. Not to say they are not having a positive affect for the amarr in the war as a whole, just that some of us thought (right or wrong) that fweddit would be a pvp group of pilots who cared more about getting into fights than always knowing they could win before engaging and more than they cared about pelxing and making isk. It seems to me that this has not been the case and to some, that is a disappointment. I think it is fair to say that fweddit has quickly matured into a gorup of fw pilots pretty much like all the others; they want to win any fight they get in or not get in one at all, and easy isk is more desired than random fights. Like any group there are pilots who don't conform to that description, too. But overall, the only way I can say fweddit has failed, is that they failed to be different than the rest of the amarr and indeed fw pilots in general (or I failed by expecting something else
from them based on talk before actions began).
This is in no way a troll attempt post; it is just a rambling about how I actually see things going from my limited personal experience over time. If you think my take is biased, fine, we are all biased by our perspectives.
I like Susan. I like Shalee too. Can't we all just get back to the simple business of blowing up each other's ships?ReplyDelete
For the record, I don't consider Susan a troll--she's just very pro Late Nite and Minmatar. Because, y'know, she is one, and so are all here Eve mates. Those who get all pissy over what she says need to take chill pills.
And sure, some things are unfair, but it goes back and forth all the time. Ebb and flow, right?
Now, back to making ISK AFK ice mining from work so I can pay for more ships that will get exploded by Amarr and pirates...
susan and shalee jelly pit wrestling to decide the amarr/minnie warReplyDelete