Thursday, May 24, 2012

Loyalty Points

Last night I was able to get out and do some pvping, testing out the LP for PVP system. The way it is set up currently is that you have to be in fleet, and on grid with the party that gets the killing blow in order to be rewarded LP.

This was actually considered a good set up by most of the fleet, knowing that in larger fights, logi and other none dps support will get a fair share. Also, it will be harder for random militia noobs to ninja onto kills for the purpose of farming LP payouts, without really contributing to a fight.

One thing that people are not particular happy about is the fact that only people on a complex button receive the ISK for completion of the plex. After toying with it a few days, there seems to be no practical reason for the LP payout to work this way, and many people claim that it does the exact opposite of encouraging PVP in plexes.

Apparently the Amarr are having the same thoughts. Shalee Lianne say on her blog Sovereignty Wars, "If plexing is supposed to inspire pvp, and LP is your reward for plexing, then you should get the LP by being inside the plex, not just within range of the timer."

It makes sense that those pilots pvping and defending the plex on the warp in--where fights most likely occur, should be rewarded for their efforts with their fair share of LP from the plex payout.

There are also some concerns with the LP payout amounts. CCP, in their dev blog, openly stated that they felt that Plexing should be the most rewarding system in FW, followed by PVP and then missioning. However, many are claiming that the LP you make missioning per hour still greatly over powers what you can make pvping and/or plexing.

There are still several Faction War bugs to be resolved, including a serious one where a plex timer will not start counting down when a player is on it. Sometimes, you have to warp back and forrth to the plex, and burn up and down from the button a few times to get it to click on.

Also, there is a rather annoying bug where on occasion the Faction War information system-UI will completely disappear for random amounts of time.

And, the local bug has proved to be somewhat annoying for Faction War pilots, who are unable to get accurate WT counts in contested systems.


  1. My alt watch listed half the damn minmatar militia last night. Such a pain in my ass trying to figure out if you are really in system or just the ghost of Susans past.

    Also I whored on a worm Shalee soloed in her slicer . I did a whole 37 damage but did not get LP for the kill.....not really sure why.

    Nice try baiting RTS's Mach last night. That Sleipnir was yummy.....


    1. You have to be in fleet and on grid with the pilot landing the final blow to get the lp split.


  2. yup, getting on the kill mail and getting LP do not equate. If a fleet member pods a pilot, even slow locking fleetmates on grid get LP but are not on the kill mail. If two solo pilots combine to take down a war target, both are on the mail, but only the one that gets the final blow gets the LP.

  3. It's not a matter of just being in Fleet, you can solo kill. The other is, the LP goes to the Killing Blow. So if your fleet of 10 is beating on a ship and I uncloak a SB and my Torp Volley takes the Killing Blow. Your fleet doesn't get the LP payout, as I am owner of the kill.

    Secondly, the plex timers have always been buggy. I don't think you need to warp out and in. The timer is apparently still going even if it's not showing an interaction. Agree, it does need a fix though. Knowing the time means a lot.

    On the issue of being on the button. I greatly appreciate it that it is this way. That way people get off the warp in. If you have it so that you can just load up on the warp in with heavy sluggish tank with much DPS, then most smart FW pilots aren't going to Gate in.

    In most situations with gang on gang, you are far more likely to encourage fighting when the defending gang is more likely on the button.

    For example, we Gall and Caldari have been really fighting over Okkamon in the past 3 days. We have had a blast going back and forth with Plexing fights (I have been a part of 20+ kills and only 5 skirmishes, but my understanding is that this is 24/7). I doubt one of which of the skirmishes that I was in would have taken place if the SQUIDS knew we were in 1600Plate Tackle Thoraxs sitting on the Warp In. Same for us. I wouldn't have Leroy'd into the Plexes knowing they all have close combat tackle on the warp in.

    I think it's heavily important that not only they keep the rewards for being on the button, but more so that they increase the rewards so that it is even more encouraged. As you said, missioning is still far more LP profitable. I can run 4 lvl 4s in the time that it takes to take a Large Plex. ~40K LP vs. 8K (I don't know exactly this is what I have heard for solo takes, but it's not 40K).

    1. This is one of those things where people's actions carry more weight than speculation. Close combat on warp-in is a plexing staple in our area, and so is having a scout inside the plex ASAP, cloaked or otherwise. Plenty of fleets have known full-well there was a heavy tackle gang on the warp in, and engaged anyways. This is acceptable tactics, and because it actually takes place, the argument that it "discourages PvP" doesn't hold up in practice.

      I personally believe that anybody participating inside a plex - on the warp in, on the button, behind the warp in, below the warp in, is part of the engagement and is an important part of defending that plex. Thus, they should deserve credit in the form of LP. This should be a technically feasible thing to fix, since the way the mechanics currently work allows for all inside the plex to receive standings.

      I've waited a couple of days to make any recommendations to CCP based on how this is shaping up, so I appreciate everyone chiming in with stories like these that help describe how the changes are shaping the warzone.

    2. Why not do it the same as they would award standings in the old system. The person who was orbitting the button the longest would and in orbit range when it is captured, will share the benefit with everyone who was *in his fleet* and on grid.

      That would avoid people coming in the plex at the last minute and cutting your lp into fractions.


    3. i was thinking the same things... that VP credit toward ranks is based just on being inside the plex so why should the LPs not work the same way. And with the timers not working, well it is quite frustraiting. People have to stay on the button just because you don't know when the plex will end. But, when I think about it, if they fix timers so everyone can always see them, then people can sit at the warp in until the last minute and they go get onto the button for LPs. And it does prevent people from comming in last second and taking a share they didn't work for...

      I think if CCP fixes the bugs in plexes, then I prefer it to stay the way it is, you have to be on the button to get LPs... but I can see it both ways.

    4. Well, the bugs will likely get fixed soon, from what I can tell. So I wouldn't want to tweak a mechanic based on the assumption that a bug will remain there forever. Especially one as obvious as not being able to see the timer. (Yes, we're aware of the old spawn bugs as well) That being said, I agree with Cearain in that everyone should get some credit for being in the plex, the *in fleet* provision he proposes would take care of that elegantly and align with the PvP payout system as well. Nice thinking guys.