Today I was going to talk about some fun Late Night had last night, but was distracted by this blog post recently published by Amarrian I.Law member, Almity.
In it, he accuses CSM member Hans Jagerblitzen of breaking NDA and feeding the Minmatar information in order to further their political agenda. He also claims that Hans turned on the Faction War community by telling them to “suck it up” instead of taking their concerns seriously.
He goes as far as saying that in his corporation they’ve replaced the word ‘douche’ with ‘Hans’ instead: “In I.Law vent we don’t say douche any more we say ‘stop being a Hans.’”
Not long ago, I published a post on why the Minmatar Love Fweddit. The post used some rather strong language to clearly, and accurately depict the opinion that Late Night had of some of the Amarr at the time –particularly pre-Inferno veterans who were acting somewhat besides themselves at the announced Faction War changes.
It was also meant to show what a breath of fresh air it was to us to have a new, enthusiastic group of pvpers in the opposing militia, who made it obvious that they just wanted to have fun. It was refreshing to once again be threatened with “we’re going to blow you up in the face” and “we’re going to roll you and take all your space,” as opposed to the rather outlandish threats and whining we were receiving by other Amarrian quarters—threats to get us “banned” for exploitation, and claims that the only reason they were losing was due to game mechanics that were “not in their favor.”
Honestly, as things somewhat quieted downed and every one began to get used to the changes, I thought that perhaps the politics would also calm down a little. Perhaps, some rather uptight, foaming at the mouth Amarrians would learn from Fweddit’s example and take on their attitude of, “we don’t care, this is a game, let’s just go have some fun.”
I was wrong.
In fact, not much has changed since then. While Fwedditers are writing battle accounts and talking about battle tactics, Amarrian ‘vet’s’ are whining about “why I hate Faction War” or making ludicrous claims about how the Minmatar are ahead because the CSM gave them privileged information. (Apparently they couldn’t get the exploitation things to stick.)
While I have no interest in taking the rather obvious bait of arguing over who has more numbers, and who has more advantages, and who blobs who, (blah, blah, blah, waaa, waaa, waaa) I will most emphatically and decisively defend my friend and alliance mate Hans Jagerblitzen who has the rather unfortunate task of representing the sorry asses of these Faction War dumwits.
You say that Hans gave us privileged information. I say you are full of horse crap. Station lockout and other FW changes were discussed at Fanfest, and at great length afterwards –before Hans even was even an official member of the CSM.
You claim that Hans “took it upon himself to insult and degrade anyone not for the changes.”
No. Hans fully admits that he brought concerns to CCP. And, instead of foaming at the mouth and crying DOOM when they proceeded with the lockouts, he made a mature, and rational decision to try out what CCP WAS GOING TO DO ANYWAY before ultimately condemning it all. I’m sorry that he didn’t fling up his hands and panic as you obviously wanted him to do.
Honestly, Hans took a lot of you crazies seriously, and even publicly supported a warzone reset that would have given back the Amarr dozens of systems. I should probably mention that this political move--that he did because he felt it would benefit all of FW--was extremely unpopular in the Minmatar militia, and had his own militia members shouting at him on coms.
Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.
Honestly, I used to feel kind of embarrassed by the Amarr, and the picture of incompetence they were painting to the rest of the EVE community. I even felt a little sad at their downfall. But, not any more. Not I just feel pity –for the new guys in their militia and others who just want to have some fun and do some pew pew, but have to carry around the baggage of people like Almity who makes them all look like pathetic, ignorant morons.
So, feel free to fly your tech-1 Rupture around the warzone looking for your elite “guerilla” pvp. You’re about as significant as the gum on the bottom of a Goon’s shoe.
PS. For those interested, Hans kind of had an interesting reaction when I brought Almity’s blog post to his attention this morning. After a short laugh he said it was “ironic.” Mainly because he had just gotten done pointing CCP’s attention to a feature that Almity had suggested recently….
My comment on Almity's blog:ReplyDelete
Almity, AFAIK Hans is about the fairest minded player I know of. I'll vouch for him any time as a CSM member. He's also CEO of Autocannons Anonymous, and while I'm not overly fond of every member in that corp, I am of Hans and hold him in the highest regard.
I honestly held most ILAW pretty highly too. Probably the only Minnie who had your back and lurked in your chat channels. Maybe I was wrong there... sigh.
Vordak Kallager is ceo.Delete
haha wow Almity shows his stripes. I did not realize he was one of the crazy people. If you want to accuse some one of a crime (breaking a NDA IS a crime) than you should probably have proof. Which of course he doesn't, since Hans didn't break the NDA. Guess Almity is just stupider than I thought.ReplyDelete
Where does he accuse hans of breaking an nda? Which by the way is not a crime.Delete
Is it this?
"In my views Hans was meta gaming the fuck out of FW and his role as CSM. I found it rather telling that the Minmatar started pushing systems before any real announcements were made. I called him out on the forums and left it at that. To be fair to him I mailed him in game and explained that I don't hate him but disagree with how he is going about the FW changes discussion. Since then he has posted almost everywhere how Amarr just needs to suck it up and “come at me bro”. "
Metagaming the csm is not a breach of the nda. But perhaps you mean his statement about minmatar pushing so hard for sov before announcements.
Well let me say that I do not think Hans knowingly violated the nda to give any sort of advantage to minmatar.
However I think people can be free to speculate on this just as Almity did.
Also I do think csm members do gain and have gained advantages due to the nda information they are privy to.
Have goons not been in perfect position to deal with every change ccp has made? Goons not buying titans/supers - and then there is a titan nerf. Goons have been in a great position for just about every upcoming change. They even taunt Raiden about how they are going to be screwed.
Am I accusing former csms vile rat or mittani specifically of breaking the nda? No I have nothing more than the fact that they manage to put thier alliances in the right place at the right time for every upcoming change. I have no smoking guns.
But I don't particularly trust Mittani either for what he says in game or out of game. (Like his apology where he claims he didn't know if he was Alex Gianturcco or mittani - coming from someone who says "lolrp" all the time it was pretty funny to hear him resort to that. But it is obviously false.)
CCP purposefully gives advantages to csm members and then says now scouts honor don't use this to your advantage. But it has never even been explained how this is supposed to work. Are they supposed to pretend they didn't hear what they heard?
Lets say someone in Mittanis corp said lets start building lots of titans. Now mittani knows there is titan nerf coming. What can mittani do? Can he say no lets not do that?! Must he recuse himself from all alliance discussions of strategy in game? Bottom line is if this the scouts honor were anything other than a joke he would have to recuse himself from these sorts of decisions. But the nda doesn't require it so it is a joke.
I mean CCP doesn't explain any of this. But until this is explained the whole idea of giving advantages for certain players crap.
We can also say the same thing for Hans. Lets say someone in his corp said well inferno will bring big changes and it will be better to plex now rather than later. Can hans say yes lets plex now? Must he remove himself from any planning sessions?
I mean if he knew he was pushing for the change where it takes 5xs as long to flip a system and knew ccp was open to it he would have valuable information that no one else had.
What is the protocol hans? Do you completely remove yourself from all strategy in the game? CCP has never addressed this but it is clear this is how csm members can get advantages and never be called out for it.
Bottom line I think Hans is honest. But the whole nda thing is a joke.
Hans and other csm should push for its removal or deal with the fact that it poisons the game and many are going to call ccp and csm out for this.
Interesting points, Cearain.Delete
I was speaking about accusing Hans of using undisclosed info to help the minmatar before inferno was released. My point was that info like that it was going to take longer to flip systems after inferno was public information available to all in the week before inferno when the minmatar pushed to take systems. So there was no meta gaming or insider info at all there. Suggesting vaguely that he did something wrong in regards to the NDA is irresponsible, at least. And as far as I know, yes violating the NDA (which is a signed contract) would be a crime. Well perhaps a tort, but that seems like semantics. The way I see it, the amarr knew what changes were comming as well as the minmatar did, we just won the battles to take advantage of it. And there were battles!
As far as what you are talking about how CSMs are supposed to handle knowing things that they can't talk about, I think you make good points. It is anecdotal but you are correct that it seems like the goons are always in a good position to take advantage of every new change. It seems ironic to me that for a group that talks about now EvE is just a game, don't take it seriously, to be the poster child for meta gaming and spending real life resources on doing well in EvE. In a way, no one take the game more seriously than the Mintani and the goons.
That whole situation reminds me of the concept as insider trading. Where corporate CEOs are not allowed to use info about their own companies to make trading decisions with their personal stocks before said info has been publicly erased. In the real world there are consequences for being caught making money or avoiding losses by using non publicly disclosed information. But it a difficult position to put people in to say, even tho you know that you are about to lose a lot of money, you are not allowed to avoid it. On the other hand, many smaller investors would be taken advantage of if insider trading was not illegal. But in the end, it seems that EvE is a game and as such, there is little to no control over inside information being used to aid corporations in game. I have the idea that the NDA that CCP gives CSM members is more about not telling competitive game development companies things that CCP wants to keep in house more than not telling people playing the game what changes are comming.
Urik you see my point. The rules regarding insider trading are fairly complex. Yes there are clear cut examples of people being frauds like with martha stewart but there are all sorts of provisions in shaping those laws to determine that. In this game there seems to be nothing even close to that.Delete
Let me start by restating that I think hans is honest and would never do anything dishonest to help his faction in faction war. I will be the first to say that is lolworthey. That said when we talk about issues of nda and what can or can't be said it may or may not have anything to do with honesty.
Without actually reading the nda we as players aren't really sure what it covers or doesn't. Saying the minmatar or goons get an unfair advantage because they have csm members does not necessarilly mean anyone is accusing anyone else of violating an nda document.
If Hans said for example:
1)"I am pushing CCP to have the flip times take much longer" to someone in his faction. That I doubt would be a violation of the nda. Same goes if Mittani said "I am pushing hard that titans be nerfed."
Now lets say they said even this:
2) Hans to corp member: "I am pushing to have the flip timers changed and I feel ccp is agreeable" Or Mittani "I am pushing to have titans nerfed and I feel ccp is agreeable." Is their reporting their own feelings a breach of an nda?
I doubt it. I think all the csm have indicated what they thing ccp may or may not be willing to do so if it is a violation then I guess they should all be removed. But already we have crossed over that line where they can share information with their own groups for unfair advantage.
The obvious solution is just for ccp to do away with the nda and have csm work like they did in the past. (by that I do not mean ignore them. They can do away with the nda and still not ignore csm) If they don't want players knowing something then they shouldn't tell players. Its that simple. That way csm is free to say whatever they want as soon as they want, and we don't end up with worthless fluffy csm minutes that have been combed over by csm and ccp.
Look at the last minutes from csm on faction war before inferno came out. They give us no indication of what was to come. I mean this was the very next expansion and there was nothing there of substance that players could really give feedback on.
CCP either wants to be open with the players about what they are working on or they want to continue to put up walls. CSM is basically a wall between players and ccp. Time and again ccp uses csm as a scape goat saying they ran this or that by csm and therefore they ran it by the players. But there is no way csm can really know what players think of an issue when the players aren't even aware of the issue.
Hence ccp only hears from players who are hardcore enough to run for csm. Hence the game is getting to be worse and worse for casual players. No docking rule is prime example of this.
CSM is constantly gagged on how they can communicate with players due to nda lest they end up like ank. (the facts of which I guess know one even knows, or if they do know can't say they know.)
Oh and yes I knew the flip times were going to change after some ccp dev posted this in a comment in the dev blog. But Hans knew that he had pushed for that before that time. Whether he "knew" the flip times would be changed before everyone else I am not sure but he probably did.Delete
But even if he didn't "know" it he certainly knew the probabilities much better than those not on csm. So much of eve is being able to plan for the future that this is a big advantage.
Seriously, this is funny. Getting all in a tizzy over something silly like us calling a douche a Hans. As for the NDA thing, well, *shrug*. I don't know anything about all that. Seems like the sort of propaganda I read on this blog all the time. Almity's issue was with the cavalier attitude Hans had toward Amarr complaints in public.ReplyDelete
Me. I don't care, really. Still, Susan, worth noting: some Amarr complaints are valid. But, it is past the point where complaining is worth the time for me. Now I write a comedy blog instead. Sort of like you do...
He goes as far as saying that in his corporation they’ve replaced the word ‘douche’ with ‘Hans’ instead: “In I.Law vent we don’t say douche any more we say ‘stop being a Hans.’”ReplyDelete
That really isn't true. It was said once on vent last night, as someone came up with the idea. /shrug
Shalee speaks truth. We dont really do that.ReplyDelete
So your own blog is actually chalked full of lies. Good to know. Least the truth gets posted here on Susan's blog.Delete
Well, I dunno. It is growing on me a little. But, I don't think that little bit of humor is what these gents are all bunched up about.Delete
Is it the NDA thing?
Anyway, more e-drama.
Almity, you won't let me post comments on your blog with your have to log into some whatever random account to comments, so I have to post my comment for you here. Susan is nice and allows Name only comments. It will work fine since you apparently read Susan's blog a lot and now I don't have to worry about ever going back to yours.ReplyDelete
Wow, what a terrible post. Hans supported a full FW reset before inferno launched. He listened to everyone. He sent idea from amarr and minmatar alike to CCP. People that kept berating him, even after inferno launched, acting like he was somehow responsible for the choices CCP made are the ones he told off. A person can only take so much unwarranted abuse before reacting. Way to stay classy, Almity.
"In my views Hans was meta gaming the fuck out of FW and his role as CSM. I found it rather telling that the Minmatar started pushing systems before any real announcements were made."
IF that is really your opinion, than you are stupid, sir. The proposed changes to FW, including station lock out, were first announced at fan fest. That is to say, before the CSM election was held. There was no special info leaked and no underhanded tactics. That is quite obvious. If you want to accuse someone of a crime (breach of contract, sir. NDA's are legal documents) than you ought to have proof. Not some self serving, poor loser opinion. Have any proof? No? Shocking.
The amarr are losing fw right now because they didn't plex enough before inferno released. There were battles over systems like Kourm before inferno came out, and the Amarr lost. It's no secret; the Minmatar took space from the Amarr by force. Amarr lost, straight up. All the whining and bitching by you and other amarr about the current situation is just the result of losing. Losers often try to pass the blame off themselves for the loss and often whine about how unfair it was that they lost. You are doing just what all losers do.
Heck, even Hans' comment about PvPing is better than sitting in Egg complaining appears to be taken out of context. He was noting that you DO indeed fight! Pre inferno there were threats about leaving militia, quitting eve, etc. So Hans appears to simply be saying that the new mechanics aren't as bad as some amarr feared and the PvP is fun, so aren't you glad you didn't give up FW before inferno even released?
Do you think that maybe your bad attitude, foul language and general poor demeanor might be why people don't take you seriously? Why people might simply tell you off instead of listening to your whining? Almity, you come off as a ninteen year old who thinks everyone is below you and the world owes you something. Certainly not the sort of person one would want to talk to, listen to, or associate with. Just something to think about.
It's funny you mention Goons after being inadvertently subjected to being one of their "pet projects" for the past few weeks. Any comment on that?ReplyDelete
As for the rest, more of your famous Sensationalist Generalization style, as per usual. It's one of those situations where no one can provide absolute proof for or against either case. The fact that you attack Almity with such disdain makes me think that he's onto something.
Didn't even know Almity had a blog till you called it out, thanks for that. Quite the interesting read.
Some of us did joke about "stop being a hans" so its not a lie just a punch line. Over the last few months the minnie blogs and forum posts have been horribly bias. Susan may have used a little nicer words than me but she has insulted me plenty of times. Hans also did.ReplyDelete
I dont sugar coat things. I say what im thinking and lastnight I was pissed at Hans. I was pissed about how he responded on the forums saying I ran. I was pissed he blogged about it. I was pissed he responded to other blogs in almost the same way. I did come off sounding like an asshole but at the time its how I felt.
This morning I felt a ting of regret over using such harse words. I dont regret speaking my mind but I could have used a little more tact. I dont hate Hans and I doubt i ever will. He just pressed my buttons one to many times, joking or not
as though this matters as much as the goons pushing the I-Win button for the Minnie, and destroying fw. Amarr obviously had a good reason to complain. They weren't fighting the minmitar. They were fighting the Goonswarm. You and the minmitar take too much credit Susan.ReplyDelete
I can't believe the goon FW scandal hasn't been addressed here. Speaks volumes. Did you make any iskies off that I wonder?
Other questions about the nda:ReplyDelete
What if only the minmatar knew hans was pushing for the longer flip times? I know I didn't realize he was doing that until after they were announced. Does that give his faction an unfair advantage?
What if mittani only tells goons that he is pushing hard for a titan nerf. Does that not give his alliance an advantage?
Is it a violation of the nda to tell others what you are saying to ccp? No its not a violation.
You likely would only tell your alliance/faction the things you were pushing for if you thought ccp was receptive to the idea anyway. I don't think that is a breach of an nda but it could explain why minmatar started plexing heavy right before inferno changes were announced.
Personally I feel left out. I don't seem to have been let in on the top secret NDA-breaking advantages...ReplyDelete
Why you no love me Hans??
What is this goons fw scandal you speak of? I haven't heard anything about goons helping minmatar in fw... The only connection I can think of is the fweddit guys being in part reddit alts who are allies of goons...ReplyDelete
read their gloating report about their success in the FW scam. I have to admit that i got bored part of the way through the explication of the mathematics, but at some point they explained how it was they needed to get the minmitat to tier level 4 or 5 for the plan to work. So they had alts join and etc...ReplyDelete
I have nothing against FW. i actually want to join the amarr side with one of my toons (I love underdogs). I'm just surprised you guys aren't more pissed off about the fact that The Mittani took advantage of the first solid boost that CCP has given Faction Warfare in awhile.