Saturday, May 5, 2012

Resetting the Warzone: Not Just a Matter of Opinion

On April 20th, Shalee ended a post about how Faction War is going to suck in Inferno with a plea to CCP to reset the warzone.

Very few people took this idea seriously, or said much about it until yesterday when a CSM member made the same suggestion on the EVE Online forums, even saying he would be taking the idea to CCP:

"I also totally agree that with all of the changes on the table for this expansion, the most fair thing to do would be to reset Sov across the board. I've already been talking to CCP about this particular issue. "  --Hans Jagerblitzen

As the CSM member's remarks was lighting some heated discussion on the forums, Shalee posted an entire article about the issue, saying that "it is only fair" that occupancy be reset come Inferno.

So, should occupancy be reset? Are the changes that CCP is making to Faction War merit a reset across the board?

The first, and most important aspect of this discussion is the impact that a reset would have on the sandbox. Technically speaking, resetting what is ultimately player-driven political content would be as far from sandbox behavior as you can get.

For this reason alone, I would be willing to bet much on the fact that CCP will not even consider the idea, as it goes against everything they are striving to accomplish within the game.

The second consideration is what kind of precedence an action like this would make. A reset would open a whole gray area in EVE, where discussions could be had over how 'big' a change needs to be in order to merit a reset.

CCP, as of yet, has made no precedence in resetting in-game politics due to an added feature or changed game mechanic being inconvenient toward one party or the other.
I do not think they will start now.

Faction War
One of the primary arguments you see for an occupancy reset, is that it would be 'good for Faction War.' While I think what's 'good for Faction War' dims in importance a little in the face of what's good for EVE in general, the question of whether it would really be good for Faction War is worth investigating.

Theory 1: It will create more fights, as it means the 'underdog' will be more motivated to fight.

Though I can't speak from the perspective of the Gallente/Caldari warzone, one of the biggest excuses the Amarr give us for not fighting, not undocking, and etc. is that we outnumber them. They claim that they are currently the underdogs in both numbers and activity right now. (I will actually prove them wrong on this matter in a later post, where I analyze some hard mathematical data.)

A reset will not address the Amarr's numbers issue. Therefore, why do people think it will make them fight more?

What it boils down to is the morale of the underdog. People feel that a reset would essentially make the militias who are currently behind feel as though they have more of a chance.

So essentially what they are asking for is an action by CCP that expressly caters to the feelings and attitudes of specific political parties. This is called asking for favoritism.

Theory 2: It will be fair.

One thing tossed around by the (very few) supporters of a reset is the idea of 'fairness.'

Since we've already established that a reset would go against sandbox ideals, would be an action of favoritism toward specific political parties, and would essentially go against all previous precedence CCP has set in the past, I think it's safe to say that the idea of a reset being 'fair' is a somewhat ludicrous notion.

But, whether or not it's 'fair' aside, the idea that CCP would do something for 'fairness' sake is in and of itself a ludicrous notion.

  • What about the idea of fighting over null-sec space, defending and keeping that space, and then having the entire face of that space changed by CCP's removal of minerals from drones?
  • What about the idea of purchasing 60+ billion isk ships only to have CCP change mechanics that essentially changes the very roles that they play in fleets?
  • What about any nerf, or mechanic change that leaves pilots SOL? Or is good for some and bad for some?

Who are we, as Faction War pilots, to think that we deserve  CCP to make our plight more fair? Are some really that naive?

The Bottom Line
The bottom line is that not only would a reset be bad for Faction War, it would be bad for EVE. 

Maybe I will be proven wrong, but I cannot fathom CCP resetting the warzone.  I cannot begin to imagine the fallout from such an action.

Maybe I have too much faith in CCP when I 100% believe that they will not take an action on player-driven political game content--an action that has purely speculative results.

In her post on the reset, Shalee says,
"I can deal with most anything I think as long as we have a fair shot when the new changes are implemented."

This is EVE, my dear Amarrian opponent. This is the game where any 'fair shot' you might have is determined by you--determined by the effort you put forth, the decisions you make, the friends that you keep, and all actions that you do or do not take.

This is the sandbox.

If you want something different --something less, where GMs try to make things a little less hard, and a little more fair, then I suggest you go back to playing WOW.



  1. Susan I think you fail to see the "big picture". Once these changes are implemented FW will not be worth playing for many people. A mass exodus of established FW players and corporations to be (possibly) replaced by alts and isk farmers does not do you any good.

    Who will want to join the losing side of this fight? Isk farmers? Any real combat pilots would rather go pirate or 0.0

    Look at this from a pvp point of view. Do you think your chances of getting a fight will increase once Amarr has to go 5 jumps to reship?
    I can't understand why you would be in favor of these changes if you want fights. Maybe its not fights you want? Maybe you just want to win. Shalee has already said she does not want any side to win. She wants to fight. That's why we are here and in FW. We want to fight.

    Resetting the war zone would be an inconvenience for you. You would have to fly or jump all those ships from Huola back to Auga. Poor Susan Black, my heart breaks for you. I honestly believe if these changes happened six months ago when Amarr was the dominant force you would be singing a very different tune. Every word you type, every idea you have is to benefit your Militia's current situation. You sugar coat it and twist the words but I don't even have to read between the lines to figure that out.

    Screw precedence and fuck fairness, I want to fly and fight. If the reset makes that happen then I'm all for it. Can you see the battles over systems? The fun to be had? No, I don't think you can. You can only see the logistical nightmare of moving LNA back to Auga. Stop thinking about yourself for one moment, just one, and reevaluate the situation. We both want to shoot stuff in the face. Look at it from that prospective.

    "This is EVE, my dear Amarrian opponent. This is the game where any 'fair shot' you might have is determined by you--determined by the effort you put forth, the decisions you make, the friends that you keep, and all actions that you do or do not take.

    This is the sandbox.

    If you want something different --something less, where GMs try to make things a little less hard, and a little more fair, then I suggest you go back to playing WOW. "

    Keep yelling from your soapbox Susan. Keep putting people down with your quick tongue. Shalee blogs and campaigns for the benefit of FW. You soapbox for yourself and your own personal victory. Keep those blinders on and one day you will find yourself surrounded by all those friends you keep and no one to shoot at. How long will it be until you are trying to name your new Dark Elf in WoW?


    1. Actually I think Susan is the one looking at the bigger picture, quite plainly, in this post - and you, good sir/maam, are the one with blinders on.

      Looking only at the underdogs of FacWar's plight vs. looking at the ramifications of a reset placed against the backdrop of all of Eve.

      Yep, pretty clear cut there.

    2. What ramifications? The changes they are making to FW are as drastic as creating FW. When you add or change a game mechanic to this extent you cannot compare it to anything.

      The big picture of FW is the future of FW and the people who drive it. Put your ear to the ground and you will hear the rumbling of lots of people who are ready to leave at the drop of a hat.

      Once they are gone they will not be back.


    3. What you are asking for is essentially a partisan handout from CCP. Have the Minmatar taken a number of systems under an easier mechanic than will be in place in the future? Yes. However, the Amarr have, and will have until the change, the exact same opportunity to do so. The fact that the Amarr are outnumbered or otherwise incapable of defending and capturing systems is neither CCP's fault nor concern. There is no perfect way to implement these changes, and someone's going to be mad no matter how it's done, but the only way to do it without CCP subjecting player actions to an artificial retroactive change is to keep current system ownership as is.

    4. Gald the systems getting reset does not mean very much to me. The real issue is docking. I don't care who owns what. I just want the fight. Once we can't dock in enemy controlled systems that messes with our PVP.

      Having a reset would result in some nice fights. If they don't do a reset then you can expect more people to leave faster and less pew all around. Reset or not the end result will be the same. A reset would just let us have a little more fun before everything falls away....


    5. I'm not much of a fan of the docking lockout either. It's a damper on casual pvp.

      You'll probably find we agree on more than you might expect.

    6. Where are all these people you claim will leave FW if CCp don't reset leave too Almity?

      Hisec? Seems unlikely you claim you want to PvP.
      Sov-Nullsec? Seems unlikely even more restrictive sov-mechanics.
      NPC-Nullsec? Possibility, plenty of small gang, but why aren't you there yet if that's what you want to do (why bother with FW even now)?
      Go pirate? Doesn't rob the opposing militia of targets as you know flashies make fine targets.

      So unless you think these people will quit EVE outright that argument doesn't really hold much merit imho. And considering how passionate you seem about it, I don't think you'd quit tbh.

  2. You guys are missing something.Rumor has it -A- is going to be breaking the NIP with CVA and removing them from Provi again, but this time will be renting Provi out. Amarr will probably gain a large influx of players from CVA and co.

  3. "Amarr will probably gain a large influx of players from CVA"

    You just made my day.

  4. CCP makes a big deal about playerbase-driven consequences for playerbase actions. I expect that CCP's intent is for there to be no reset - and for upkeep costs to be the balancing factor as far as the change from occupancy to sov goes.

    It will be too costly to upgrade all of the systems held, so some will go undefended or unupgraded - and will therefore be easier to flip by the other side. Eventually there'll be some sort of balance with that, I'd think, as the strategically-important systems will tend to be the focus of upgrades while others will see more limited upgrading - and will as a result be the systems that tend to flip back and forth more frequently.

    Mind, that sounds suspiciously similar to the original plans behind the current nullsec sov system, but if it depends on feeding LP and such to the I-Hubs, at some point you'll hit a hard limit of how much LP can be farmed in a given day and things will hopefully take care of themselves.

  5. The changes are introducing battlelines to the sandbox due to logistical limitations. Those limitations are being established when there are no such limitations: larger side moves large fleets into enemy system, waits for the best six hours of the day to attack, then blobs until it turns.

    Is it fair to install smaller basketball hoops with 5 minutes left in a game because the home team is winning? Under your definition, it is perfectly fair.

  6. im not really liking the dock lockout of all stations, but it does make occupancy mean something! Sandboxes can be shaken and reset if everything about them is altered. I dont see that as some crazy anti sandbox idea to do a reset. So old faction war is gone and we get this new toy called faction war and it starts as a clean slate. Just like the old one did when it started. CCP can giveth and can teketh away. So be it. A reset would not bother me all that much.

    As for long flights to reship, it seems to me if there is no reset, the amaar would base out of a high sec system bordering the war zone, say one jump from kamela. And the amarr would then set about trying to turn kamaela to be theirs. So it is one jump to reship. And unless many minmatar move to kamela and risk being locked out of their ships should the amarr turn it, then the minmatar would have to fly at least one jump and probably two based on where they live now, to reship. So I am not sure it will make a huge huge difference as far as reshipping goes. But we shall see.

    As a minmatar that has never moved out of Auga, I am thinking that I might need to move most of my assets out of the war zone anyway. I have too many assets in the war zone to move in a day or two notice if the amarr start to take my home system. These station lock out changes may end up making all fw pilots keep most of their things outside the war zone with only some handful of pvp ships in systems near the current battles. No consider that the minmtar basicly have to fly through Amamake to get to highsec (or the 15 jumps to hek area, yeah right) and it seems to me that the pirate operations in amamake that are outside the fw discussion could really impact the minmatar fw pilots. If amarr manage to gain control of the systems around our main highsec entrance, pirates could have a field day denying access to the war zone to minmatar pilots. My only point is that in the sandbox, there are good and bad and problems and benefits etc to pretty much every situation. Nothing is clean cut and any choice is going to adversely affect someone.

    Oh and Almity, you can post using the name and URL option and just type your name with no url so people wont miss your sig at the bottom and thing you are posting anon so as to hide you identity. Obviously you are not hiding, but by the replies I take it some people dont see your name at the bottom of your posts because they are looking for names at the top.

  7. I'm actually considering joining Amarr FW because they're the supposed underdog and they need competent pilots that aren't afraid to lose ships. I look forward to fighting against you in Inferno SusanB.